Last week at the Trump National Doral Miami golf club, a group of religious leaders dedicated a twenty-two-foot golden statue to President Donald Trump, the resort’s owner. During the ceremony, Trump called in and described the statue as “beautiful.” The event was presided over by Pastor Mark Burns, a longtime Trump supporter, while the idea for the statue came from a group of cryptocurrency enthusiasts who support the President, and used its creation to sell a meme coin called $PATRIOT. According to Burns, Trump was originally scheduled to attend the ceremony in person, but apparently changed plans amid criticism for posting, and later deleting, an A.I.-generated image of himself as Jesus Christ. (Burns later took to social media to strongly deny that the statue represented a form of idol worship.)
I recently spoke by phone with Burns, who is the senior pastor at the Harvest Praise & Worship Center, in Easley, South Carolina, and the founder of the internationally broadcast NOW evangelical television network. During our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity, we discussed the backstory behind the statue, why Burns believes God told him to support Trump, and why he thinks opponents of the President misunderstand how his supporters really see him.
How did you come to be a person who is sometimes described as President Trump’s spiritual adviser?
Well, just being a very, very early supporter. Before he announced, I was in his orbit, and I guess it was about being loyal to the word of God for me. For me, it’s never been about power or position. Remember, he was considered by many people a long shot to even win the Presidency. And so early on, I was there, and the Lord told me then. The first thing the Lord told me was to show the world that this man’s not a racist.
The Lord told you directly, you mean?
Well, yes, yes, absolutely, He told me directly. Yes. The Bible’s very clear that He speaks to us through dreams. He speaks to us through the word of the Lord. And so He told me to show the world that this man is not a racist. I know what real racism looks like, being from the Deep South, and it’s not Donald Trump. And that’s where my relationship started. And, of course, I didn’t know he was going to become President.
I think it was probably more likely he would become President if the Lord wanted him to be President, though.
I’m assuming you’re saying that respectfully because we do believe that God chooses our leaders. And that includes President Biden, former President Obama, and any other leader that America has. He raises up one and sits down another. But also, the Bible says that we should pray for our leaders. That includes Democrats and Republicans.
You’re talking about a period, in 2015, when the campaign was starting, and a lot of conservatives were upset that Donald Trump lived this colorful life, had extramarital affairs, and said these things about women. Why were you able to overlook all that stuff?
The word of God.
Well, that’s a good answer.
When you read the word of God, He looks beyond our faults. We are all sinners. We have all fallen short of the glory of God, and yet we understand that it is by the blood of Jesus that we are made clean. I know that Noah was an alcoholic. He was so drunk that he fell down naked, and his sons had to walk backward to cover him up. But God chose him to try to save the world. You have David, who was a lustful man, and also a murderer. And yet he is the man that God still used to write the Psalms. And so, because I know what the word of God says, I know God doesn’t judge us based on who we were. He judges us based on who we are and who we’re becoming.
Then, do you think Trump has changed over the last decade or so?
I know for a fact that who he was when I first met him spiritually and who he is today are two different people.
It seems like sometimes Trump’s allies or supporters say the negative claims about Trump are lies or smears. But what you seem to be saying is not that Trump didn’t do any of these things in his past, but that he did, and that’s O.K., or maybe not O.K., but that God works in mysterious ways and can use Trump to lead the country nevertheless. Is that accurate?
Well, I think that it could be said about all of us. I mean, Isaac, you have things in your closet that you pray never show up on CNN. There are things that you’ve done that you pray to God never become a New Yorker story
That’s interesting, but I haven’t grabbed women against their will and bragged about it, or posted a video of the Obamas as apes. So maybe there’s a sliding scale of what people do and how we should judge them?
Ultimately, God is our judge, not people. And we may have a sliding scale, as you say, in man’s law, because it is true, murder is way more dangerous and carries heavier weights than jaywalking or eating too much. Gluttony is just as much a sin as murder, but in the eyes of man, murder carries way more weight, and it should be handled the way that the word of God says it should be handled. But in the eyes of God, who is our ultimate judge, God is a God of forgiveness. God is a God of love. So, having said that, it doesn’t matter what President Trump has done in his past.
It doesn’t matter?
It doesn’t matter in the eyes of the Lord, and apparently, it doesn’t really matter to the eyes of the American voters because they voted for him and made him President twice. Many would argue three times.
You would argue three times, right?
They voted for him twice, and he’s won twice.
But, you think he’s won three times, to be clear.
